The following took place in a London hotel on the 6 September 2010 where Rockgig scribe Mark Evans had the great honour to meet the legendary guitarist Steve Lukather to talk about his new solo cd and upcoming tour.
Before the tape started Steve spoke of his past weekend jamming with Roger Glover and Vinnie Appice for an Italian football club owners birthday party jam and the demise of legendary record stores Tower Records in LA and Shades in London. Then it went like this:
R Lets start with the new album “Alls Well that Ends Well” out on 11 October on Mascot Records. I’ve lived with it for the last 3 weeks and love it
S Thanks, I worked really hard on it and I still care about the big production the meticulous approach.
R It sounds huge.
S Thanks
R A true story - I got it the same day as the new Iron Maiden cd and I love Maiden but I think that your album sounds better.
S Different kind of music. its got a big dynamic range. A lot of people who do harder edged music has a lot of compression on it, my music ebbs and flows. When its soft its quiet yet when it then goes boom and kicks your arse you go “wow” and thanks to digital it then goes quiet again.
R When you finished your last tour, 2 months later you were straight back in for the new cd. Did you have many ideas kicking around?
S I’m not one of these guys who hoards songs I actually write per project. I felt pretty confident that I wanted to go straight back in again and not do a side project. Toto had pretty much broken down/I had left and that was the end of it and so spent 2 years all over the world as a live solo artist. I wanted to go straight back in then out again to keep the momentum going after all the hard work I put in and take it to the next level with baby steps moving up I have realistic goals. I’m not just going to do Toto songs to get people in to the gig.
R What do you think of the whole heritage act side of things?
S I thought I would never do Toto again. We ended up getting back together for a few weeks this last summer to help our brother Mike Porcaro who has A.L.S.
R How is he doing?
S He’s not well at all. He’s withering away, he’s paralyzed in a wheelchair all the medical bills were building up. Being the bass player in the band didn’t write a lot of songs, the royalties had thinned out over the years.
We got the core set of guys who went to High School, David Paich, Steve Porcaro and myself. Joseph Williams came back as vocalist - he was a High School buddy and his voice is sounding stronger than ever. Simon Phillips came back and Nathan East stepped in to play bass and 2 great backing singers Mabvuto Mavuto and Jori Steinberg.
We did 3 weeks of festivals to 25/30,000 people lots of young kids. We played the songs like the record, we didn’t try to get all tricky with the arrangements. We played it like the people wanted it and it was a smash success. We had a blast. We are all different guys I’ve quit drinking and smoking and I feel really healthy as we all are. We’re all friends, we put any past differences to one side and it was a real positive experience for all the right reasons, for the right cause. So once in a while we may do some more. We aren’t going to get back together officially or do another record, everybody is off doing their own things. I’m excited about doing my own thing my record and tour, I’m going to go all over the world. But occasionally if something comes up for a couple of weeks I’m in and everybody else is. We had a good laugh and we did something really nice for Mike.
R There is a live cd/dvd coming out from the Copenhagen show I read.
S Yes it will be out next year on Mascot Records.
R How many songs did you write for the new cd, I read that you felt 9 songs is enough about 50 minutes.
S Don’t you think?
R Yes
S 90 minute records I mean its like a concert I mean I love Bruce Springsteen but it doesn’t mean I want to sit there for 4 hours. I mean after a while your ears start to go even if you’re on stage playing for that long you start to go. I mean I like to have sex but after 4 hours straight, although how porno films are edited like that these days.
Joking aside when I felt I had enough for the project when I had enough ideas for the record, enough quality tunes not just 11 to fill the record. Is there a rule book? Screw the rule book when I felt there was enough diverse material which defies who I am in 2010 its done then move on.
R Do you feel that the cd captures the essence of who you are in 2010?
S It is a real personal album. I’ve had a real fucked up year, I’m going through a lot of personal devastating things. I’m getting divorced yet I’m having another child, my mother died on Fathers Day this year, my son and I found her on the couch. It’s really brutal. I had someone try to rip me off, lost a couple of friends to
disease, ill friends. I’m getting older I look around and think what the hell happened to the world. How many
good years do I have left, what the hell is going on with my life? it’s a very confusing time, I quit smoking, I quit drinking, started running, got a shrink. I’m practising doing vocals. I’m going to be touring the world for the next couple of years. The world is going very quickly and this is the first time I really wrote most of the lyrics by myself and about myself.
R The lyrics are very deep.
S The life is pretty fucked up and I don’t think I’m done. Most people I know are going through divorces and death and they are certain wake ups. It’s a very scary time in the world.
R Here’s some words that I wrote down from “You’ll Remember”, “Time rushes by like a leaf in the mind”. You’re not wrong there, how quickly it goes.
S I blinked and 30 years went by. Fee Waybill and I wrote that together and the other song we wrote was a piss-take on the paparazzi. “Flash in the Pan”. They build people up and they are famous for nothing. Are they trying to catch people doing stupid things?
I have a lot of friends who are famous I mean really famous actors who can’t go anywhere. The paparazzi follow them in cars to get a sandwich. “What the fuck is that all about?”. I’m glad that I don’t have that. I want the Dave Gilmour fame. Get all the money and the creative license to make great music but able to walk down the street without people losing their minds. That is what you really want. Every once in a while I get “Aren’t you that guitar player guy?” yeah yeah but I can go anywhere I want. I’ll take the money fuck the fame.
R Do you still write songs on the keyboard?
S Yes although on this one I wrote a lot with C J Vanston who is a keyboard player and producer of Tina Turner, Joe Cocker a lot of great stuff. I’ve known him 22 years and this time he was on the keyboard I was on the guitar it was a good marriage and in the past I’ve been on the keys which creates a different vibe. It creates different kinds of material dependant on the instrument you use.
R Was it a conscious decision to use the live band for the cd?
S We did almost 2 years out there and they are such great players so I thought I could call up all the usual suspects/famous names but I thought I want to give them a shot on the record and they are going to come out on the road with me again.
The instrumental that we wrote “Tumescent” was us all sitting together. Steve Weingert and I wrote a couple of things on the record.
R Was that song “Son of Jake” originally?
S Ha ha. It was. The riff was reminiscent of “Jake to the Bone” which was on a Toto record years ago (1992 ‘s Kingdom of Desire). I changed it to “Tumescent” I don’t know if you know what that means? Its hilarious. Its basically engorged a sexual term your dicks hard. Tumescent it’s a wonderful word, look it up its funny.
R Other than the instrumental did you record any more of the record as a live band?
S Yes we did. When you see the word demo what’s that mean? When you are working on Pro Tools its all of master quality especially some of the soundscape accidental atmospheric stuff you can never really re-do that again, so I said lets just overdub to that, so in a few cases we just overdubbed the band to pre- existing things that were already there. I piecemealed some of it, some of it cut live, I think they are the most obvious once the bluesy ones that we cut live.
R My favourite is track 3 “Can’t Look Back”
S One of the first that we wrote, my buddy Phil Collen of Def Leppard and some backing vocals for us, he’s a sweet guy. That was really taking the piss out of the flashy shred thing. Trevor said “That’s awesome Dad you gotta keep that one”.
R Its got a great vibe to it
S It has a really nice driving down the road feel to it. The lyric kind of wrote itself.
R I’m glad I had it for the sort of summer we have had here. It’s a driving song
S Driving the fuck out of town to get away from all the problems I have in town.
R You recorded at the Steakhouse in LA with Steve McMillan as producer. I’ve seen the clips festering and rubber sheets come to mind (Steve laughing in background) you had a great time was that decision made to help the vibe on the cd?
S I first worked there in 1986 and feel very comfortable there and have made some great music in the past with cool people. My last 4 or 5 solo records have all
been made there, it feels like home to me. It has that great old Neve desk from EMI London on which they recorded some of “Dark Side of the Moon” on it. It has a magical ring to it. So although we recorded on Pro Tools I still used a lot of analogue gear to get the sound. I’m still a song guy.
R What gear did you use on the new cd?
S Personally I used my Musicman guitars and Wagner amps that I was sent that I’ve never really used before. 3 or 4 different kinds of heads and we plugged in all different ones. I used a stomp box kind of think. Any other reverbs, compression any other sound was all done on the mixing desk. I keep the rule look pretty simple.
R Does your live set up change much to the studio set up?
S Again different things. A couple of stamp boxes set up through a Marshall JCM 2000 or to get back out the old Bradshaw 3 speaker cabinets. 1 dry 2 wet, I don’t do so many buttons as I used to, I’ve gotten over that the squishy squashy sound I was blamed for, at the end its 25 years ago you know what I mean? I don’t have the same hair or wear the same clothes either that was a snapshot of an era.
I mean we live in this youtube world its now punishable by today’s standards. C’mon get over it give me a break. Stop with the comments they should erase the comments because its just brutal. People are comedians or want to be mean spirited orbiter because their failed musicians. They want to pick apart every wart that’s there. I didn’t know that if I got up after 12 tequilas and jam with Joe Satriani that I will be compared to him and torn apart by his fans. Joe and I are friends and when you get up and do something like that. I’ve stopped drinking and smoking I was in therapy and almost quit playing. It hurt me so bad. I’m a hyper-sensitive person. I mean no harm, I’m not competition with anybody, I’m not better than anybody else. He’s a friend and if he says get up I will, now if I was half drunk and I probably shouldn’t have played. I have a tendency to over play when I was drinking so catch me in a couple of those moments, its brutal I don’t read this shit anymore. Everyone is a fucking critic or they want to trade places with you. I’m a professional yet in a recording studio when the light goes on they would fold like a house of cards.
That’s second nature for me to do that I’ve been doing its for 35 hears. I’m not bitter but I don’t read any good or bad I think whatever I’ll look at the clip but not read the comments. I won’t scroll past the screen. My therapist says you’re not allowed to look down past the screen, in fact I don’t really look at myself at all. I don’t look at all I’ll see every wart. After 1 min 42 seconds people say he fucked up come on guys give me a break. They’ll stop people getting up to jam with anyone especially if you have someone else’s guitar or amp and its not your sound.
You do a bit of a video lesson and you’re wanking off and people say “You suck” and saying it’s a pod its not my guitar/amp and I’m hungover. I’ve now removed the hangover excuse as I don’t drink. You shouldn’t criticise people its in the bible. Judge ye not. Walk in my shoes and then judge my ass.
R While recording the new cd you were mixing Lee Riteour’s “6 String Theory” cd, did the Soulbop tour, European clinics then Toto. How do you focus on so many things at the same time?
S Hell that’s a lot. All in a 6 month period of time, hence the demise of my marriage. These are prices to pay. There’s a lot of reasons not just work for that. I’m a workaholic and I can’t stop. How many breaths do I have in this life? How many heartbeats do I have? The older you get the more you start thinking about that. I’ll be 53 in October I’ve got only so many great years left what am I going to do with my life? What am I going to do with this talent. I have to wrong some rights within myself. I had all the party years and I’m not saying it wasn’t fun, but I have to be careful not to squander this gift I’ve been given by being a fucking idiot. Its cute to be an idiot when you’re 20 when you’re 50 its sad. I hit that wall and its your mortality. I lost friends, became an orphan, I became the next guy in the line for the dirt nap. Its so scary, I don’t know what will happen. I have little children now. I have a little girl Lily who will be 3 next month, I have a boy on the way who will be here in January, a broken marriage and all the guilt. Her family hates me, my family is pissed with her and I’m in the middle of all this. I still very much love my wife we are still very friendly to each other. it’s a very hurtful time in my life.
R That’s where “Darkness in my World” off the cd comes from?
S That’s it. When I was doing the European clinic stuff I was writing lyrics to what we had cut and it was kind of prophetic to see the rise and fall of my life. My trying to be hopeful but…
R It really shows that.
S Thanks, I tried to bare my soul and hopefully the people will get that. It’s out there for the world to see.
R I listened to the cd in the car yesterday and I said to my wife “forget the vibe listen to the lyrics” and she said the same “you bare your soul”. “On My Way Home” you sing about being 10,000 miles away from home.
S I wrote that while I was in Japan and I don’t go down to the bar to party anymore. Play the gig, hang out drink a non-alcoholic beer and go back to my room and I read. I read a lot of spiritual books. I go onto the internet and interact with people on facebook and twitter. Some times I cry myself to sleep, tough times. But there are moments of great happiness too, the joy I get from my baby girl is beyond belief. The innocence and her pure love and my older children love me so much. I have a lot of love in my life and good fortune to live my dream. Its not some dead-end job that I hate. I see the world and they pay me to play the guitar. It’s a great fucking gig. The ying and yang of life.
R We’ve covered most of the songs what do you see as a success now, sales figures, critical acclaim or on more of a personal level?
S It would all be great. In reality you have to have a realistic bunch of goals in 2010. My album leaked onto the internet and got 20000 full downloads in 1 hour, so that’s 20000 people got my record for free. I could be mad but I say that’s cool. But from the comments I’ve seen they say its great they will buy it, come to see the live show so its like I sent out 20000 more promo copies. It’s a world where you have to let go of your past ideas as being mad at that. If people like that then something good will come of it. I just want to move up the ladder one rung at a time as a solo artist. I don’t want to go out there and do karaoke versions of “Rosanna” ”Africa” and “Hold the Line” like some people do. I just don’t feel comfortable, I’ll play the song while I can still bring my best out there.
R I read a comment you made when you said “I pray I get a break this time I’ve more than paid my dues”
S I just want to move up a rung as a solo artist. This isn’t a side project or vanity/ego project until the next Toto arena tour. I can handle the best of worlds and if I can move up to say “theatres”. If I can sell out 2-3000 seat theatres do what I do on my terms then that would be success to me as a musician and people take it seriously as that. Not to be kicked in the fucking teeth any more by the critics. Don Henley said to me once “Hang in there, get better at what you do and show you can take a punch and the respect will come back to you”.
It’s starting to, I’m getting better reviews, treating me better. I was never a big popstar, people never said “Wow” when I entered the room. But I worked for all of them. It’s a catch 22 there.
R Funnily enough as we are talking about that I have some random questions and one was with the music scene as it is now are you glad you did all the session work in the 70’s and 80’s?
S Are you kidding me? Who wouldn’t have wanted to work for all the legendary artists I worked for. Some were my heroes. The people who shaped me and then I was in the room making music with these people.
I’m jamming Beatles songs with Paul McCartney and George Harrison separately. I’m jamming with Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton. You could name anybody. Miles Davis, Wayne Shorter and Herbie Hancock. I’m thinking I’m not playing a record with but I’m on stage with them and they are watching my solo.
R How many songs off the new cd do you think you will play live?
S We’ve not started rehearsing yet. I won’t do them all but I’ll do a good chunkful. We need to see which ones feel good live. They are quite produced tracks and I can’t stand using a hard drive onstage basically playing along to their record. That’s bullshit. I’d rather change the arrangement and not have a 5 part harmony only have a 2 part harmony, open the solos up a bit. Create a different live vibe. It’ll sound like the songs but without the 20 guitar parts and 15 keyboard parts which is the luxury you get when you are producing and making a record. You pick the best 2 or 3 parts that go together.
I’ll do my live version of my songs. In fact I did that with my last record “Ever Changing Times” which was very produced and we pulled it off as a 4 piece band and that’s what I want to do.
R Looking forward to it
S Me too.
R Before that are you playing with the Goodfellas in Italy and Poland, how did that come about?
S Kenny Aranoff is a very dear friend of mine, he’s world class drummer and this opportunity came up to do this in Eastern Europe as a series of clinics. It’s like a guitar/drum thing. We’re not doing any of my new stuff but we do jam band stuff very reminiscent of what I used to play at the Baked Potato which is a famous jazz club in LA. Jam band stuff with a lot of instrumentals ,classic rock stuff. Have a wank and have a laugh. Make some cash and go home ha ha. It’s a chance to get my chops going before the tour. A warm up. It’ll get me to parts of the world I’m not normally in so I just want to play guitar man, I’m kind of hurting inside so to play music with my friends and travel around a bit will be cool.
R Will your solo tour carry on into 2011?
S Oh yeah, that’s the plan.
R America?
S America is a little harder due to the economy. I could play New York and LA but in the middle h’mmm. I could go out and be Mr fucking Toto but nobody wants to know about that. There is a possibility of putting a little package together with some of my guitar friends. Not like a G3 type of think but Robben Ford, Michael Landau and myself might go out. We need to make it financially viable and decide what audience are we going for? What tunes are we going to do? There’s talk about doing and including one thing that I’m not allowed to talk about right now. America is a tough nut to crack. The great thing about Europe and Asia is when they like you they stick with you. God bless you guys thank you very much you’ve kept me and my family alive. America is so fickle. It’s a fast food nation in every aspect. Food art, television, films, music everything is a fucking paparazzi ridden tabloid life. It’s a McDonalds cheeseburger it all tastes the same, people have an attention span of 5 minutes. It’s a hard nut to crack and the economy is worst its ever been.
R Will you come back to Europe again?
S I’ll be in Europe 2, 3 or 4 times probably. It’s a big continent with a lot of wonderful people and they like what I do.
I’ll come back to the UK and I’ll play Ireland, Scotland and more UK dates. At the moment the vibe is really good, the reviews are great and we will see how that translates when the album comes out in October.
R I have some random questions to finish with: How many hours a day do you practice?
S Depends on where I am and what I’m doing. When I’m on the road its hard and I’ll pick it up for a few minutes a day. When I’m on tour I’ll spend half an hour before a gig. When I’m at home I’ll have my coffee in the morning get up at 6. I’ll put in an hour or so depending on if my getting ready to start a project. Then I’ll study the music I’m going to be doing, practice the chord melodies, different things trying to enhance the vocabulary. I’ll do scales and stuff a little bit to have the facility/the fingers to do it.
R One of your great comments I’ve seen is that you say “You are still a student” which I think is fantastic
S If you break through a door you say great how many and you break another and you find there are another 100 doors. Once you’ve done that 100 there are 100 more. The more you learn the more you realize you don’t know anything. We are all still searching for the lost note. The last permutation on how to play and try to not make it sound like everybody else. Everyone plays the blues scale you try to get round it and make it your own.
R Who are your earliest influences?
S The Beatles and everything that came after that. I went through everything in real time. Beatles then The Stones, then the British invasion, Beck, Clapton, Page and then it was Prog Rock plus all the Motown pop stuff. The cool pop stuff of the radio. Rn’b stuff and the pop back then was so brilliant. So well crafted, well written with some amazing musicians. I look back at that time Beach Boys stuff was great. You can go on and on just how everybody moved on. Then it was Prog Rock stuff then the cool session gig music and Steely Dan and then everything up until now. I sort of got into the scene and everything that came with it ended up influencing each other. Eddie Van Halen comes along and just changes the face of everything and he is one of my oldest friends. Now I just living in real time.
R Who do you listen to now?
S I listen to a lot of old Bee Bop stuff that music has a wealth of knowledge right there. I love acoustic stuff
But generally after a full days work I don’t listen to music at all. If you’re a mechanic you don’t go home and do the car. You wanna watch tv and scratch your balls.
R How much did you enjoy writing “The Session Stories” for Guitar Player US?
S I really enjoyed doing that. It also keeps me in the public eye especially in America. The session scene is kinda dead but I tell interesting stories and anecdotes and bits of my life. Mike and I decided not to talk about the whole drug thing. I kinda said “Oh lets forget about it”. That whole 70’s/80’s thing. It was everywhere cocaine everywhere. That was just a way of life. I don’t want to glamorize it, I just want to say yes we did all that crazy-shit. There was moments of clarity, we were young and could handle it but it also is not fun when people become drug addicts. People died. You lost ability and focus a waste of time and money, energy and days. I don’t want to write about that shit. I don’t care if you print it that’s the quick version. I’m going to write a book about my life as a musician and not dwell on all the girls I fucked and all the dope I did. I did the cliché rockstar bullshit I’m a musician and I want to talk about the great artists had a chance to work with, the stories of how records were made, who was there. Stuff that makes it more interesting than just some rockstar book.
R Will the book happen?
S I’ve been hit on by quite a few people but that’s a years work. I may do that in a couple of years time. I was going to do it right away but decided to back off a bit, when I slow down a bit when I have the time to sit and talk into a tape recorder rather than someone following me around.
Do you know I have every date book that I have done since 1977? Every session where I was, what the dates were, studios we were at. It’s a fucking encyclopedia man. I’ve been on over 1500 records allegedly. It keeps changing but 1000 for sure. There’s some much information and so many stories to tell. The book would need to be that thick (opening his arms).
R Look forward to that one. Are you amazed how the internet has changed how we listen, watch and buy music?
S Yeah.
Brief interlude as we are interrupted by Martin Scorsese brother (or so we thought) who asked “are you talking to me? Lots of laughter from us.
R Are you a cd or Ipod guy?
S Both. I listen to the music that I download onto my computer. Like I said earlier I read a lot that I then can’t get out of my head and that inspires me to write a lot. I like to read spiritual books and books that aren’t like my job. Other things.
R I’m sorry I have a question about Thriller from my Editor
S That’s ok.
R Eddies solo on Beat It. I read that you reduced the distorted sound, resynchronized it and re-cut the tape it to fit the song but do you wish you had played the solo?
S Eddie played the perfect solo. Do I wish I did? I played famous solos before. We actually to Michael’s vocal and Eddies solo and we had to frankenstein the record back together as Eddie cut the 2 inch tape that we had synch it all back up so that was kind of hard. We did a hell of a lot of work for that record. Toto was a big part of the “Thriller” record and no mentions Toto and Michael Jackson in the same breath even though we were all over it. Human nature its Toto, Michael Jackson Hm’m. It was written by Steve Porcaro, all of us played on it, arranged it but you never hear that mentioned. Anybody else it would have been ”AND”. Its like the rap guys. I have a huge hit number one in the UK with Roger Sanchez called “Another Change”. That’s my voice my song. I got the money but no mentions Toto or me. I had a number one record here but no one knows that.
Everyone knows the song but doesn’t know its me. I mean it was a ridiculous take on a sample of a ballad but it bought me another house. God bless him.
R So we said earlier about you’re still a student. After all the awards, the Grammys, the Eddy Christiani Award this year. Congratulations.
S Thanks.
R I read that you just want to be known as a working musician. Is that how you still see it?
S I love my work and I need to work. I’ve got 2 more kids to put through college and another relationship gone bad. I’ll be working till they find me dead in some hotel room. That’s a scary thought, I’m happy doing what I do. Travel the world, play my guitar, make music and the happiest I am is when I’m onstage playing music for the audience. I was built for speed I’m healthier than I’ve ever been and I’m gonna keep doing this till someone tells me I can’t do it anymore. That’ll be my doctor or the audience.
When no one turns up I’ll know its over!!
R Last question. What for you is/are/the more exciting elements be it now/in the past or the future for you? What is the most exciting thing you feel that you’ve done?
S The past would be the first hit record. That was “Hold The Line” and that was the dream. Join a band and have a hit record get a gold record and go on tour and people show up.
Second part would be to sustain that. Then being a successful session musician and being a producer/songwriter/solo artist.
Winning album of the year as an artist. But we won “Album of the Year” 3 years in a row.
“Quincy Jones”. Toto “IV” and then “Thriller”
Once again no mentions of our name.
I’ve done it I won a Grammy with Larry Carlton and with Lee Ritenour we may get lucky this year. Who knows the world may collide! Although its quite political. I want to sustain my career. Keep doing what I’m doing and being healthy while doing it.
And be a good father that’s the most important thing. Being a father is really the most important thing in this world. My kids love me I’m a great dad. I may be gone a lot, my dad was gone, but he was a great dad.
I do what I do. My kids understand they don’t know it any other way when I’m home I’m home. Its 8 o’clock pops home. I get to be the good cop. I can skype now and see my little baby. “Daddy are you coming home tonight?” No I’m really far away. Look on the globe mum will show you where you are and where I am.
R Steve thank you its been an honour meeting you and all the best for the cd and tour. Looking forward to Islington (18th November)
S Thanks a lot. See you there.
So after Steve signed some cd copies and a couple of photos. He moved on for more interviews over a couple of weeks in Europe then go home for a while, a clinic in Mexico, the Goodfellas dates,2 weeks rehearsals then the European tour, Christmas some dates with Bill Evans in January then back to Europe.(In fact he’s hoping to come back to Europe for summer festivals and again in The Fall) Does he ever stop?
“All’s Well That Ends Well” is out on 11 October on Mascot Records. It is one of the most personal stories I’ve ever heard. A journey through dark times that music is helping him get through. It has emotion, soul, great playing, a great vibe and deserves to be heard by everybody. We wish him all the success in the world.
Thanks to Peter & Will at Noble PR for setting it all up for us.
